Cultural heritage and practice

[ilthit]

Speaking as a Finn who has lived more than a third of her life abroad, and in the spirit of the comm rules (no elitism, personal attacks, trolling, etc.), I'd like to bring up this topic.

Because a lot of Pagan paths are tied to a particular cultural heritage or then combine or conflate gods or ideas from many strains, I'm often second-guessing myself about my "right" to follow a certain idea or invite a certain God, and on the other hand feeling both connected and disconnected from the Paganism of my own heritage. I tend to make my peace over and over again by reminding myself gods have never stuck to one place only and the thing that matters is that my connection with them is authentic and I approach them with respect. The niggle of self-doubt remains. 

As background: The first Pagan path I discovered was Wicca, as is often the case, which is a tradition that conflates. Over the years I've come to believe in a cosmology that differs from the Wiccan one, so while I can still agree with the five points, I'm not sure I want to call that my path anymore. The main sticking point being the idea that all gods are the same god. Yes and no, I think. But more on the "no" side in practical terms. I'd still like to celebrate the Wheel of the Year, and do, because who's stopping me, but it's only this Imbolc that I've really tried to connect with Brighid herself as an individual goddess. This is an ongoing project. But I am not of Irish (or even Celtic) heritage. So it's been on my mind, and the material I've been reading has, if anything, reinforced my hesitation. She appears to "belong" to Irish reconstructionism. 

On the other hand I am sitting here in ancient Gaul, where we had the earliest mentions of Brigandu. On yet another hand, I'm sitting where Hekate received sacrifices at least up to the sixth century. Gods travel. 

Any thoughts, experiences on the subject of relating your personal cultural heritage with your faith?

Comments

[northernsoul]

I believe that people belong to gods. I don't believe that gods belong to people. Or more precisely, I don't believe a particular group can lay a monopoly on its deities and wholesale deny so-called outsiders from honoring them.

A deity can be understood, and probably should be understood, as to how it operated within a specific historic and cultural epoch. But at the end of the day, if gods are independent beings with their own agendas, then they accept whom they will.

If you feel called to a particular deity, I say go and explore them, regardless of whether or not that deity is enrolled in a specific heritage you may claim.

[ilthit]

You may have hit upon an important error in the way I have been approaching this. To say I can take a god that doesn't belong to me is to say I can take a God. Gods take us. The problem is social, not religious.

[arhalvaztrirjournal]

I would note that in the Classical Age Gods *did* travel and the old pagans were much less fussy about it than people are nowadays. Romans might worship at the temple of Isis or the Magna Mater in the morning, sacrifice to the Dodecatheon in the evening, or even blend Judaean practices in with 'generic' paganism. At least some of the attitudes for more hardline elements do reflect the reality of cultural appropriation, but there is, honestly, a very very simple line there.

One can honor the gods of other cultures without presuming that being honored by them or called by them outweighs the voices of the actual culture, or makes that call somehow superior to its original context. At least to me. If anything that renders it much more totally focused on the deity, and thereby strengthens that particular tie.

[ilthit]

I don't talk about my religion openly or online very often, and if I do talk about it it's in very private settings, so I don't think I'm in danger of becoming the next Pagan Rachel Dolezal. I think this issue has its social dimension, in which cultural appropriation is a concern as well as, when it comes to specific traditions, exclusion (I do respect the right of any group to be closed; I would never call myself a Feri practicioner without initiation, for example), and then personal dimension, and I suppose a third divine dimension. I also realize there's a weight of cultural understanding that someone who grew up outside of that culture will never entirely understand. Will I ever be able to personally reconcile my piecemeal cultural identity with any tradition? I'll have to figure that out for myself. My relationship with the divine is also, always, a work in progress.

I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences in this regard, though, if any?

[flumph]

Personally, I feel that the living members of the culture, if there are any, take priority. We know those people exist and what their opinions on if and how outsiders should practice are. We cannot empirically prove that the gods exist, and it would be incredibly full of yourself to say that the voices in your head are more correct than a multitude of people born and raised in a particular culture.

Of course, opinions do vary between members of any given culture, but it's your duty to listen and process their reasoning. For example, the vast majority of Scandinavians and Icelanders are cool with people outside their countries practicing Heathenry (though they don't always understand why we'd want to.) The ones who emphatically aren't are overwhelmingly white nationalists. Personally, I'm fine with ignoring the opinions of white nationalists when the rest of the people in their countries are otherwise cool with me practicing.

Then you have various Native American traditions, where these nations were subjected to genocide. In some cases, they lost huge portions of their culture, and even have trouble reconstructing it because what's left was distorted by colonizers. These nations may choose to close off certain things to outsiders, or at least to outsiders that don't learn directly from them, just so their practices can survive in a way that's remotely true to their traditions. And IMO, we should respect that. Surely the gods would want us to respect their other worshipers and provide us with the means to do so if they were truly calling us. Frankly, I wouldn't trust any supposed god who didn't.

Ireland also went through genocide, so in my experience while you won't find many Irish people who will say non-Irish can't practice (aside from, again, white nationalists), they do tend to be kind of irked by twisting their traditions to suit a convenient pan-Celtic or pan-Pagan narrative. The Irish people I've talked to aren't against people the Wheel of the Year, or even Imbolc specifically. It's just that if you're going to call it Imbolc, you should acknowledge that it's an Irish festival where Brigid is honored. And if you don't want to incorporate any Irish traditions whatsoever, then maybe you should call it something other than Imbolc.

But I encourage you to seek out actual Irish people and hear it from them. And the same with the members of any other culture that isn't part of your heritage but whose practices you're interested in using.

[ilthit]

My people, too, went through genocides and famines and were under foreign control for most of our history, and now that we have had independence for a hundred years and in the past few decades and influx of refugees from southern countries, we also have a massive white nationalist problem.

It's one of the reasons I'm also shirking from contacting or trying to form a relationship with the recent resurgence of Finnish Paganism. Not that I have any reason to think they are white nationalists. White supremacists are just so prevalent in the news from Finland (I am not in Finland myself now) that the idea of anything celebrating Finnishness specifically makes me a little sick to my stomach. I don't really need to connect to the movement to explore what we know of Finnish Pagan practices, and I have done that too, but then that begs the question, is that the only option I have, simply because that's my heritage? Or then, of course, traditions that are understood to know no borders.

Like I said in my intro, I'm still figuring things out after almost twenty years of being Pagan, with evolving ideas and an evolving relationship with the divine. I am pretty solid on that inner sense of the divine, of divine cosmology, but I find I have no tradition or path left to hang my hat on. I'm cautiously exploring my options, therefore, and also questioning how I connect to the Wheel of the Year. I have always honoured Brighid on Imbolc, lit a candle and sent a prayer to her, by that name, but the relationship has never been deep, or then I have viewed her in the Wiccan sense as an aspect of the Great Goddess--which as I said is something I have begun to move away from. I sought to deepen that relationship this year, which prompted this post.

And trust me, I am reading what Irish Pagans specifically have to say about it. I haven't talked to any yet, but I'm not ruling that out! I'm only sending out feelers now and I expect I will get to it.

What are your own experiences, processing Etc. when it comes to your practice and its cultural ties, if you don't mind talking about it?

[flumph]

My cultural ties are complicated in a way that I'm not really comfortable disclosing publicly on social media.

I will say that I'm American, and, as you seem to be aware, our relationship with our cultural and genetic backgrounds tends to be different than Europeans. And for those of us who aren't native, our cultural identities tend to be shaped by immigration and/or slavery, to the point where they're pretty much their own thing. There's a weird tension where we'll never be "truly" Irish, Slavic, Nordic, etc. and our environment and climate are likely vastly different than the ones the pre-Christian traditions are built around, but at the same time, the religions of the cultures whose land we're on are generally not open to us for extremely valid reasons.

That's part of why I personally gravitated toward Pagan paths that are generally pretty open to people regardless of their background. There's nothing I have the "right" to without an asterisk. I do inevitably have to adapt stuff because my land and climate are not Northern Europe. My goal is ultimately to honor the land I'm on and experience the gods as they manifest here, not RP that I'm elsewhere. But I try to adapt in a way that keeps to the spirit of the traditions if not the letter.

[haptalaon]

Not a disagreement, more of an expansion :) x

> "Personally, I feel that the living members of the culture, if there are any, take priority"

The difficulty is, you do get white nationalist types who are very invested in Norse and English mythology as white-exclusive. I think it's important to spell out how and why this is different from a Native American group wishing to eject outsiders from their rites.

In particular, specify what we mean by "living members of a culture". I'm English and Irish. Am I a living member of Irish culture? Kiiiind of, but I don't think that gives me exclusive or special claim to Irish mythology: I wasn't raised in it or with it except the way any child is, with books of generic fairy stories. I might have a slightly better appreciation of the ideas and images in it than someone living in a place with different trees and cultural frameworks, but it's not a special thing.

The cultural destruction and loss experienced in like the Victorian period can't be reversed. We lost our shot. When folklorists visited little villages to record songs and stories, they were visiting these little micro-cultures who were the authentic keepers of traditions and lore. Industrialisation and modernisation stomped that stuff. I didn't get my lore from my granny, but from books written by folklorists. Hence, the culture is a dead one.

(I think part of the attraction white randos have to joining a Native Tribe, is because it is a genuine and unbroken ancient thing. The English don't even have the names and myths of their gods, so I get the appeal. Similar to how everyone would love to be a hereditary witch.)

(Specifically, where I came from all the kids were evacuated for the war in the early 40s and came back not being able to speak their own language. That's what killed my culture, and why I did not inherit it. I'm now no more native to it than anyone else on the planet)

On the one hand, you've got a person from a culture with historic rites and stories who wants to practice and preserve them without it being diluted, stolen, stomped, adapted or forgotten.

On the other, you've got a person from a culture where the cultural practices were already lost (like, by the time Christianity showed up!), trying to revive them; and as part of thst revival, lay exclusive claim.

The former is like a stranger showing up at your grandma's birthday claiming that, in a sense, isn't she everyone's grandma? Lots of old people care about the younger generation but uhhh it's still Weird thst you're at this party? Get away from my nan?

Whereas the latter is like, you meet a girl, decide she's Your Girl, and start making rules about who she can and can't see.

One of these things is not like the others.

And especially because white nationalist types do this as a kind of "gotcha" to people from closed cultures. I think it's important to spell out specifically why some cultures are closed, what the reasoning is, why it's important. Instead of promoting it as a blanket rule.

(If only because stubborn people like me accept things better when they're explained instead of imposed!)

[ilthit]

Gosh, you're right. Finnish culture--the rites and traditions--also died. Tiny bits and pieces like fishing spells I still got from my mother's generation, but worship of Tapio or veneration of holy places is entirely reconstructionist. The Sami do have that unbroken tradition but ours is gone.

[fayanora]

My take is that if you treat the deity and their pantheon and the culture they came from with respect and do your research, if you're drawn to them, it's okay. Unless it's a closed tradition like Zoroastrianism, of course.

[mdehners]

Very much so. When I was very young I felt a Call to the God/desses of my pre-C Ancestors. Being the 70's and living in a rural community the only option I knew was Wicca. By the early 80's it was clear that not only wasn't it MY Ancestral Way but no ones. I got involved with ADF and started to go to festivals. there I kept running into Heathens. I felt a pull toward them but consciously ignored it because I was as pure Irish as an American can be;>!In the early 90's I discovered that my Ancestors came from Norse settlements IN Ireland! Been happily Heathen ever since.
This view is problematic for many Pagans. While they have no problem supporting exclusivity of othe ethnic Ways, those of European ethnicity are usually treated differently.
A big difference is Generational. "In My Day"(couldn't resist;>) the majority of alt.rel folk were Reclaiming their pre-C Ways. Today? Not so much.
This will teach me to respond at 0330;>....
Cheers,
Pat

[ilthit]

Hey Pat, thanks for responding! :) Nice to hear from someone who's been around for all this time! Seriously, I appreciate the perspective.

I read Starhawk when I first started reading about all this stuff, and honestly I loved The Spiral Dance. It's long overdue a re-read from my current perspective.

America has its own kind of trouble, I expect, over the fact that you have a local culture/cultures as well as genetic heritage (which I realize is also cultural--Irish-American identity is a good example). In Europe, borders match cultures more closely. In genetic terms, I have every right to Scandinavian and some Siberian shamanic traditions, but I don't see those as something "my heritage" in the same way because they don't belong to the culture that raised me. I do see shamanism as being in my heritage, but I'd try to stick to what little we know of Finnic/sh shamanism post-split from the Sami.

There certainly are things we know about Finnish ancient beliefs that I connect to and I'm so glad to know as much as I do about it, considering nothing was written down until the 19th century, save a couple of mentions in sermons. There's a special relationship there, even though I struggle to match it up with my actual worldview and location.

[mdehners]

I think there's a big difference between Recon and, well Inspirationalist Pagans. Recons tend to place the Way and the Culture as parts of the Whole while others generally DON'T. A good example was the bay Area back when I lived there. The Folkish Heathens were more likely to go to Scandinavian, English and Germanic cultural events while the Universalists to everything BUT. My Folkish friends would go to a Sons of Norway event while my Universalist friends would go to Renfaire. Personally, I enjoyed both;>.
I've always been the odd man out. A Gay man who was Wiccan back when we couldn't receive the 3rd because "you can't do the Great Rite". A Druid who had no patience with the "Deidre of the Sorrows" eejits and a Heathen that had no patience with Cultural Appropriation on one side and Racism on the other.
Unsurprisingly I've fund the last 20 yrs as Solitary quite Restful;>!
Cheers,
Pat

[ilthit]

"Inspirationalist Pagans" is a new term for me... XD and yes gosh, solitary is sometimes 100% the best way to go. That's rough.

The male/female duality emphasis of Wicca was another aspect that hasn't really resonated with me; or rather... well that's another essay on my relationship with gender so nvm.

I'm also pretty gay (read: technically bi but, like, my only ever boyfriend was also almost 20 years ago), but I suppose since I'm female I could have hung out with Dianics back in the day. I never did attend a coven on a permanent basis. Of course by the 1990s all the material was saying using a cup and a knife was fine.

[ashareem]

Treading the fine line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation, perhaps?

I've been a lot of things over the past 45 years, Wiccan, Witch, Druid, Ceremonialist and a lot more. I'm still all of those things, no matter what my current mode of practice is. "American Gods" gives a fairly decent take on how I view the Gods, in general. Othinn is not quite Odin, who is not quite Od, etc., but they are closely related.

A friend was once describing her bicycle tour of Ireland, and crossing the border into Northwen Ireland on one particular "holy" day. The landlady where she stopped asked if she was Catholic or Protestant. When my friend replied that she was actually a Witch, the landlady told her, "dearie, we're all witches here, but are you a Catholic Witch or a Protestant Witch?"

Now, "Wicca" means something somewhat different than it did 45 years ago, so I'm unsure which "Five Points" you are referring to, but the Wicca I was taught didn't include Fortune's claim of "All Gods are one God" etc. Obviously, Other People's Mileage Varies.

Anyway, I'm rambling. It's been a week without electricity due to storms, and my mind is racing to catch up on what I've missed in the world while disconnected. :)

Welcome!

[ilthit]

Thank you! :)

When I was learning Wicca, all gods being one god was precisely the thing. It's still found all over the material being published and it's in the Charge of the Goddess, as well. The five points are a universal eclectic Wicca thing--sorry, I should have been clearer about that. They posited that the Rede, the Law of Return, an ethic of self-responsibility, an ethic of constant improvement and an ethic of attuning (to the divine) make up the core of what Wicca is. I can't really argue with that (though I know the Law of Return is contentious).

Funny enough I'm not much of a witch. I have very little interest in spells. I'm more of a meditation, divination and prayer kinda gal.

[mdehners]

The 5 points was a term that a BT Wiccan popular in the 80's came up with to differentiate(other than Linage) Branches of Wicca. They dealt with the Mysteries. Can't remember the full list anymore but those I do:
The Lady
The Lord
The Descent
The Chalice

4 out of five when it was something I read on the old BBS system is pretty good after all these yrs;>!
Basically, only Gardinarian and Alexandrian Wicca had all the Mysteries (my coven was Alexandrian-derived, which meant our Elders WERE and left for personal disagreements with the Trad) and how "Wiccan" you were depended on how many of the Mysteries your Trad had.
Hope that helps;>!
Cheers,
Pat

[ilthit]

Yoooo those are a different five points than what I meant. :D Isn't Wicca fun?

[mdehners]

Tell me about it;>! Back in "My Day";> there was Wicca(which was either Gardinarian, Alexandrian or Fam-Trad which was usually someone who left the two and pulled the Naked Grandma"routine) and Pagans. Then, in the late 70's the more progressive Wiccans coined the term Eclectic Wicca. By the 90's the more "creative" of the EW community(oft on early forms of Social Media like TV, Radio and Public Access Cable) became synonymous with the term Wicca and Pagan was back to distinguish themselves from the truly "creative";>!
This segues into UPG (Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis) territory. The difficulty with Belief Systems where UPG's are not only central but how they are Founded means "validity" has no meaning but that you wish it. As a Celtic Recon back in the late 80'a during the heyday of the "Witch Wars", the arguements about who's founder's/HPS's/Self's Vision was "True" and who's weren't was sad. All were equally Valid or Invalid, depending on you POV. Not that Recons are above such things. Some of those arguemnets between which translation of a manuscript is "more true" can get pretty nasty as well. At least there there is a physical source in Consential Reality....
Cheers,
Pat

[ilthit]

This is gold, and sounds so much like fandom wank. I always knew you have to bring a big dollop of common sense to this kind of thing because power tripping is gonna happen. Tell me more! Especially about the witch wars. Does that refer to a particular controversy?

[mdehners]

Naw, just general stupidity. You'd a thought that throughout the Eisenhower Administration that half the grandmothers were Initiating their grandchildren naked in the kitchens of America;>! The sadly funny thing was it was mainly in the Eclectic Wiccan/Pagan Community. I mean, the usual valid Lineage BS went on between Gardenarians and Alexandrians but it seemed every Big Nosed Pagan or Witch Queen was touting THEIR Trad as the true "Olde Religione". The reeeeaaallly sad thing was by this time the BT Wiccans had pretty much accepted that Wicca was ,if not created then put together by Gardener...it was the Eclectics that were still fighting over "Validity".
I think a lot of reason it died down was the creation of Festival/Gathering culture in the early 80's. When you're isolated, it's easier for Egotists to manipulate you. When you're at a Gathering of a couple hundred folks with similar worldviews, it's hard to hate someone who's teacher's teacher may have read off your teacher's teachers notes in folklore class when the subject matter had been already debunked by Academia(usually during your teacher's Initiatory period).
Nowadays it seems to have less to do with religion and more with Politics. Doesn't oft matter what your Abilities and Knowledge are if you don't "tick" the right boxes. At the end of my involvement with the local Pagan Community they were involved with mult squabbles over basically who was the most "Progressive". We left because I just wasn't Progressive enough sexually. I mean, I was Gay but I'd made a "stink" about folks having Sex(both Het and Homo) in front of the Cub Scouts sharing the campground with us. I wasn't "Sex Positive" Enough.
Cheers,
Pat

[ilthit]

Thank fuck for festival culture. It's a pity that cons can't rescue fans locked in vicious ship wars in quite the same way, but I bet they have a positive influence.

As for competitions of progressiveness, I spent some years on Tumblr--I'm still on Tumblr but no longer engaging in any Discourse--and I saw, briefly participated in a very similar struggle there. Especially when it's someone whose life is NOT daily visited by prejudice (and I count myself in that group, I have the easiest of all possible gay existences), wanting to be the most progressive is based on one hand on the desire to be good (not a bad person), and on the other the desire to be best (more progressive than thou). It's a tricky thing not to condemn the Discourse or tell people who should be heard to stfu while also acknowledging that the Discourse is occasionally hijacked into the service of egotism. Like I said, I don't participate anymore, but I hear the latest thing on Tumblr is calling practically everyone a pedophile (except actual pedos, of course; it's a pure powerplay over people who would be uncomfortable being called pedophiles).

On the more Pagan/Wicca front, I see the cool thing on Tumblr is making angry posts about "curse-shaming". That's when you tell people not to curse, or if you openly state that you believe in the Law of Return, implying it's "wrong" to cast curses.

Clearly I spend too much time online.

[mdehners]

The problem from the view of someone outside of Wicca nowadays is that it can oft be used as an excuse for inaction just as Karma/Orlog can. "If the (Universe/God/dess/etc will take care of Justice"....
It's not just Them, it's US. We're ALL part of the same system. The thing is with all things Magical and Spiritual is that you need to THINK before you DO and be Willing to Accept the Consequences of your Actions.
If the 3Fold Law was an actual Natural Law there'd be a heckovalot less eejits and arseholes out there...at least acting. Pretty much clean out the political and legal classes;>.
Cheers,
Pat

[ofmonstrouswords]

All I can say is I hear Brighid laughing heartily at the idea that she belongs to Irish Recon. She goes wherever she wants and claims who she will -- whether as a saint or goddess.

While there are gods out there who are firmly ensconced in their cultural contexts and don't really want to be honored outside them, Brighid is not one of them. My personal *cultural* heritage isn't Isles-Celtic at all (some of my ethnicity, yes, but that's hundreds of years back and completely assimilated into/erased by US/Canada overculture; blood isn't culture, anyway) but I got a bunch of Celts tapping on my shoulder regardless, and they seem to be just fine when I honor them in a not-strictly Celtic context, or when I say "Praise the trees" at the end of my prayers because there's some pop culture mixed into my practices as well.

The main thing, I've found, with cultural appreciation and respecting the living culture when it comes to my Celtic deities, in particular, is to respect the blend of old beliefs and Christianity. As in, it was made pretty clear to me that that chip I had on my shoulder about Christianity had to *go* -- especially if I wanted to do ancestor veneration, too. Pagan beliefs in the British Isles may not look the same as they did a thousand years ago, but they weren't extinguished -- they morphed and changed and continued on as part of the culture, and Christianity is also a part of that cultural context.

I'll also say that apparently Diaspora Brighid is different from still-in-Ireland-and-the-UK Brighid. I have friends who live across the Pond and also relate to her, and while we are talking about, mostly, the same deity, there are definite, if ineffable, differences. So gods do travel, and they change with that traveling -- just like we do.

Anyway, not sure if my rambling was helpful or not, but those are my thoughts on Brighid, specifically, and Celtic deities/cultural appreciation more broadly.

[ilthit]

That's a very good point about Christianity. That gives me something to think about. I did already notice, the first time I thought of it, that I simply cannot do ancestor veneration in a Neo-Pagan context for my Christian near-ancestors (and I really don't know much about my ancestors beyond great-grandparents). I can't imagine grandma would appreciate it.

I'm also in a funny situation in that I'm married to a non-practicing Catholic and have a Protestant mother and we're avoiding an awkward conversation by indefinitely delaying the expected Christening of our son. @_@ He will likely be christened Catholic just because my wife's grandma cares the most. I have no local Pagan support network where I am now and I can't get away from Christianity anyway. So I have to find some way to be authentic in my own beliefs and at the same time fit in with where I am, socially.

Thank you so much. This was an excellent reply.

[ofmonstrouswords]

I'm really glad my reply was helpful in some way. :)

(Also I'm sorry I posted and disappeared; past month+ has been energy short for me and I keep forgetting my Dreamwidth.)

[arethinn]

or when I say "Praise the trees" at the end of my prayers because there's some pop culture mixed into my practices as well

That sounds cool. What's it from?

[ofmonstrouswords]

I'm really sorry I didn't reply to this before. I have been working on an energy deficit for an entire month and keep forgetting to check my Dreamwidth. >.<

It's from Killjoys, which is probably one of my fave sci-fi shows right now (even though I haven't caught up on the latest seasons for various reasons).

[arethinn]

Not something I've heard of before. *looks up the wikia* neat!

[haptalaon]

I was just writing about white people on vodou, so I'm well up for this question :D

The idea thst some deities are culturally restricted is specifically connected to Native American, African Diaspora, and other living minority faiths.

Early Wicca, Golden Dawn, Wicca etc borrowed gleefully and shamelessly from cultures all over the world, a very colonialist and exoticising approach. This continued to be a thing through the 90s and 00s, and only very recently have people challenged it and made their voice heard about why people randomly incorporating war bonnets or medicine bags in their eclectic Paganism isn't cool.

Does this idea extend to a deity like Brigit?

I think you need to ask deeper questions than just "is this ok if I'm not Irish".

You can check out the post I wrote earlier today, but when I was thinking about vodou, the idea that "this is a religion for black people only" is a simplistic, shorthand for:

1. This is a community religion. Theres no such thing as solitary or private practice. Are you in this community? Do yoy know anyone who is? Do yoy have the commitment to join one, and does anyone want you there?
2. This is an ancestor-centric faith. Are those your ancestors?
3. This is a faith rooted in the history and culture of Haiti. Is this your history and culture?

And when you start asking questions like that, you really start understanding why a blanket rule about No White People makes sense. It's not really about skin colour or nationality, it's more about whether this is organic and authentic or not. This is a set of rules which would also exclude most black people!me getting into vodou would be like me turning up at your mum's birthday party; weird, uncomfortable, and also why would I do that?

I think Irish Reconstructionists making a fuss about Brigit are trying to mimic this "culturally exclusive deity" model in a way that just doesn't fit. We don't have an unbroken, living tradition at risk of dilution or erasure; and there aren't internal, theological reasons why a spirit like Bride would have a marked preference for some people over others. BUT it's not a topic I know much about, so find out more about *why* people argue for a restriction, and decide whether it makes sense.

I don't think any of the factors which might apply to vodou really count for most of the pantheons out there - Greek, Roman, Irish, Celtic, Norse etc. There are no real world people who are the exclusive, unbroken tradition of reverence for them, so you've as much right as anyone to lay claim.

I also think you've got more of a claim to fuzzy Pagan Brigit than to traditional Finnish shamanism, unless you've grown up as part of the latter. It's not about ethnicity or skin colour, birthplace, genetics etc.

[ilthit]

Finnish shamanism died but has been resurrected in pagan circles. Sami shamanism continues unbroken, but I wouldn't ever lay claim to that.

Thank you so much for your input.

[haptalaon]

To answer more broadly:

I do Land based animism, so no matter where I travel the essential thing is which spirits are present here & now. I do honour some of my cultural stuff & use my language, but ive never felt like...those gods have followed me here. How could they? They are of the land. I honour them politely, but bevause what I do is so animistic, it's always rooted in the present location.

Additionally, as I mentioned in another comment, though my home has spiritual culture, I didn't learn it from anywhere but books - which is rhe only place it lives now - so there's that. It doesn't feel more "mine" than any other world faith I could pick from a book.

And finally, as every land is a mish mash,which of my local cultures is most real and important? There are competing fairy, pagan, witch traditions, as well as various Christian sects - which era of history is the one which is my culture thst I ought participate in?